Jurisdiction?

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 06/04/2020 at 09:51 • Filed to: None

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Watched National Guard humvees drive through Hollywood. As the humvees made a left, they used a turn signal...

Which made me wonder, if one did not, could a police officer pull one over and give them a ticket? Who has the jurisdiction over whom there?

This is a traffic law question. Let’s not get political here. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 09:58

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Short answer is yes. Military vehicles are subject to the same traffic laws as the rest of us. Those might be suspended if martial law is declared.

It’s the same reason a police officer can pull over another police officer whether the officer committing the traffic offense is from the same district or another.

PyramidHat > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/04/2020 at 10:00

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Now, say it’s a sheriff from Texas in high speed pursuit and he’s in Alabama?

Future next gen S2000 owner > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/04/2020 at 10:02

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This. When I was in and we ran a convoy on public roads, we were instructed to obey all traffic laws. Speeding, traffic lights, turn signal, seat belts ....everything. Stay as a group and all that.

TheRealBicycleBuck > PyramidHat 06/04/2020 at 10:03

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That sounds suspiciously specific.

Does he still have a roof on his car?

PartyPooper2012 > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/04/2020 at 10:04

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But the National Guard vehicles do not have license plates... They might have some sort of numbers painted on them, but not a license plate... soo technically speaking they are all braking laws?

PartyPooper2012 > Future next gen S2000 owner 06/04/2020 at 10:04

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Did your vehicle have a license plate? What are the rules with that?

PartyPooper2012 > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/04/2020 at 10:05

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Is he aware that the pursued vehicle is headed to Boston?

Future next gen S2000 owner > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 10:10

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No tags but front and rear had military convoy markings. Did have to have a valid driver license when on public roads.

ranwhenparked > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/04/2020 at 10:14

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And they love doing it, too, especially down south. Two officers near where I grew up in the Philadelphia suburbs were pulled over in Virginia coming back from a funeral, and were held overnight for reckless driving (doing 80 in a 70). Marked police vehicle, full uniform, no leniency. Lesson learned, Virginia is damn serious about speeders, I always keep my cruise control set whenever I'm in that state. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 10:16

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I was Navy, didn’t do convoy duty, but our heavy duty trucks had Federal license plates that got attached if we went off base.

Also, I seem to recall in perusing my state (Virginia) laws for unrelated things, theres an exemption to displaying plates for active military vehicles being used for operational purposes. I would imagine all states have such things.

Tangentially related, but a lot of times the Federal government agrees to comply with state & local laws just to ease relations between the Federal and State governments . For example, I work on a Federal facility and we have agreed to a bunch of stuff regarding keeping and maintaining the buildings because the state wanted to designate us as a historic site. W e are near a major tributary to the Chesapeake Ba y so we also agree to lots of extra state laws regarding waste water management, pollution control, etc. The thing is, Federal basically trumps state (no pun intended) so we could claim exemption and not follow any of this stuff, its just easier and less hassle to comply.  

wafflesnfalafel > PyramidHat 06/04/2020 at 10:17

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“that is not germane to the situation”

TheRealBicycleBuck > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 10:18

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I’m sure there are exemptions to some of the laws for military vehicles. I wonder how many of them have an insurance card in the glove box....

My bird IS the word > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 10:39

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I imagine that most officers wouldn’t pull over an army vehicle due to respect or the hassle involved, unless someone was doing something pretty egregious like joyriding. Cannot speak authoritatively but you would probably be punished by the army under UCMJ instead of by the state.

Its pretty hard to speed in a military truck...

Jb boin > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 10:39

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In France, military vehicules (the Gendarmerie which is part of the army have some of its car with “civil” plates and some with army plates, not sure what the rule is) have specific plates and in “normal” time (when not in an active operation) , militaries and police does have to abide to the law as any other citizens :

More explanations on the nomenclature of the French military plates here .

I particularly like the Gendarmerie grenade

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 10:41

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I’m sure some paperwork could exchange hands but the ratings would prefer tear gas and stun grenades...

...sorry but I just watched The Running Man. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > Snuze: Needs another Swede 06/04/2020 at 10:48

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We dealt with similar issues during my work in Houston after Hurricane Harvey. Some of the government buildings we were working on were ex empt from local laws, but it’s difficult to claim the exemption when using FEMA funding which generally requires compliance with all federal, state, and local laws. 

PS9 > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 10:48

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Any action taken by the national guard is a political one, as they are part of a branch of government. Decisions made by people in the government are political, because a person joins the government through political process.

foghat1981 > wafflesnfalafel 06/04/2020 at 10:55

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The gotdang Germans have nothing to do with it!

TheRealBicycleBuck > ranwhenparked 06/04/2020 at 11:02

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Story time! One of the guys I knew in college took a job with parking enforcement on campus. He reveled in giving out tickets, so it was no surprise when he became a police officer after graduating. Fast forward ten years and there’s a news article about him being caught in another state with drugs and paraphernalia . He wasn’t in a police car at the time. He and a friend were in his personal car and his friend was driving. When they were pulled over for speeding, h e identified himself as a police officer. The Texas cops that pulled him over thought he was acting nervous, so they called in a K-9 unit and searched the car.

He was carrying ketamine and GHB.

He was indicted on federal charges and spent 18 months in federal prison. Not a good place for a cop.

ranwhenparked > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/04/2020 at 11:06

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Texas is another one of those states where I don’t see them giving you any leeway if you’re a cop ,and if you’re from a Yankee state, definately not.

I had a co-worker who volunteered as fire police, and decided that meant he had a duty to stop people he thought might be drunk any time he was out driving. He used his blue lights to pull over an off duty real cop who he thought was weaving a little, that did not go well for him.

Thisismydisplayname > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 11:11

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That’s a different story, they are government vehicles and treated differently.  

haveacarortwoorthree2 > PyramidHat 06/04/2020 at 11:14

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The fact that he is a sheriff is not germane to the situation. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > ranwhenparked 06/04/2020 at 13:09

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I live there, that throws a lot of people for a loop - in VA reckless is 20 over OR 80+ . “ Fortunately” I live up in northern VA where traffic is so awful I can rarely get above 40, so it’s usually not an issue.

ranwhenparked > Snuze: Needs another Swede 06/04/2020 at 13:13

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Frustrating thing is that most Virginians don’t seem to care much - try doing 75-76 in the right lane in a 70, and they’re right up on your bumper, and the left lane is running past at 80+. I get that there's too many for them to stop everybody, but my shitty luck means I'll be the one stopped, so I'm not chancing it.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > ranwhenparked 06/04/2020 at 13:25

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I’m one of the assholes doing 79 down I-95, cruise set, on the off times that I go down that way. You’re right, it drives people crazy and they run right up on you.

PyramidHat > haveacarortwoorthree2 06/04/2020 at 14:37

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The goddamn Germans got nothin’ to do with it!

PyramidHat > PartyPooper2012 06/04/2020 at 14:37

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Yeah, but he’ll be back within 18 hours...

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > PyramidHat 06/04/2020 at 16:29

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This kind of situation falls under fresh pursuit doctrine in federal law. Essentially, an officer in pursuit of a fleeing suspect may continue their pursuit into a neighboring jurisdiction. The effect is that the officer’s jurisdiction for t he purposes of the pursit temporarily extends into any other jurisdiction the pursuit enters . I.e., crossing state lines doesn’t end the pursuit in and of itself, although department policy or the order of a higher ranking officer might. Cooler heads can often decide a pursuit isn’t worth staging a re enactment of Custer’s last stand over.

However, they can’t initiate a law enforcement action off the reservation. If they did, it would fall under that jurisdictions laws for a citizen’s arrest and they would be outside of any qualified immunity (criminal or civil) beyond what any other good Samaritan would have. I.e., unless they witness a direct threat to someone’s life, you ain’t getting involved off the reservation.

When it comes to the reservation, it’s worth noting that most, if not all, states certify law enforcement officers at the state level, which means they’re law enforcement officer anywhere in the state regardless of what agency they work for. That said, department policy will almost always limit how and when they can play cops and robbers off the home reservation. This is for many reasons, including matters of logistics, officer safety and especially liability.  Taking a police action  in violation of that polciy would have no legal effect on that action, but it might get them in trouble with the boss.